On Tour with Genesis Owusu and Deep Faith

Interview by Daniel Stricker | Photography by Byron Spencer

Daniel Stricker: I feel like we've just arrived in the second half of your tour, so we've only seen some of America, but to me – I don't know if it's post-pandemic or it's because of the politics going on here – it seems like things are a little bit kind of crazy at the moment.

Genesis Owusu (Kofi Owusu-Ansah): Yeah. I mean, I only started touring here last year, so I feel like I've only really known America in all its craziness, which can be quite daunting. But also, with the way I'm touring right now it just ends up being like: van, venue, hotel. So, it's chaos, but then it also has a bit of a mundane-ness to it. It's an interesting dichotomy, I suppose.

Byron Spencer: It's a bit hard to gauge, but the energy always seems a little crazy to me. Very turbo. It feels like a scary video game. Like a scary level in a video game that you kind of want to play, but you're also excited to get to the next level.

DS: The crazy thing I find as well is that the people are so nice. There's kind of no better place to tour in a way, because at every venue, everyone is so helpful.

BS: I think people are very positive here, and it's quite infectious. I understand why Australian creatives move here, especially to LA and New York.

DS: But then you go on the street, and there’s an insane amount of homeless people.

GO: I feel like there's a good and an evil to it. Where that positivity comes from, I think is because Americans are very much like, ‘We can do it!’. Like, you know, we're here… Yeah, woohoo!

DS: Totally!

GO: But then the negative side of that is I feel like a lot of the time, if you're here and you're not doing it, it can kind of be painted as if that's totally your fault.

DS: Yeah, I hear you. It's like there's this shiny side on the outside and then there's this dark underbelly. Actually, we were driving through the state of Washington, past Seattle to Vancouver, and we were driving past where they shot Twin Peaks. And so, I kept thinking about that. Also, you drive on the highway and there's lots of native Indian reservoirs. It just made me think of the original spirituality of this country, what this country is now and what's happening in the world at the moment. Anyway, I don't want to sit on [the subject of] America too much.

GO: Yeah, it's a crazy place. It's insane. And that's like part of the reason you come here. That's part of the reason why it is what it is, this cultural market.

DS: Another question I was thinking of; we play around so much with this idea of a technological religion, or the idea that everyone is on their phones, and the image they project outwards is different to what they are inwards… What do you think about that, Kofi? When you approach social media or when you interact with the world, what's the difference between Kofi and Genesis Owusu? Is there a difference?

GO: I think at the start there wasn't, but with everything growing, the gap is starting to widen a bit for several reasons. I think how I've positioned the whole Genesis Owusu thing, with the music and the aesthetic, with the constant reinvention. It kind of comes to a point where I have to make it a character because, personally, I can't keep changing myself. Like, I am Kofi, and there's only so many ways to re-express that while staying true to who or what Kofi is, so that means I have to invent the character a bit more.

That's where Genesis Owusu comes in. The character can kind of be a buffer as well, in a sense. I feel like coming to new places, meeting new people, can get quite daunting. I'm a pretty introverted person in real life, but when people watch me on stage, they wouldn't get that at all.

DS: I remember the first time I saw you perform was when we played with you at the Basement, (now named Mary's Underground), and it was during Covid. There were only 60 people, so it was really intimate. I had never met you properly, and I remember watching you on stage and thinking, ‘Whoa, so much movement and charisma’, and all the rest of it. My first impression was you were that guy.

GO: Yeah, but then in everyday life, it's the complete other side of that. And I feel like Genesis Owusu as a character provides a buffer between the audience and who I can allow myself to be in real life.

DS: Kofi, Are you into video games?

GO: I love video games.

DS: Do you find that when you're playing video games, is it like a kind of a role-playing thing where you're like entering the character? Or is it more just like an escapism?  

GO: My character always ends up being another version of me. Like all the RPGs where you get to be good or evil, I always think it'd be so fun to like to be the evil one. I think, ‘I'll wait until I complete this run and then I’ll be the evil one’. And then I'll complete it, and then I never end up being the evil one.

DS: Oh, that's a good thing.

GO: I can't bring myself to do it.

DS: That's really good. But Byron, on the other hand, you used to drown people in The Sims.

BS: Yeah, I drowned my ‘Sims’! I toy with evilness, but I'm not evil.

DS: I'm just joking. 

GO: You do a good evil voice.

BS: I guess you've seen us a few times, Kofi. Do you have any questions for us in terms of whether you’ve noticed much change in what we're doing?

GO: I feel like when I saw you the first time, I had seen the seed, and every time I've seen you since, I've seen the seed grow and blossom more and more. And the first time I saw you guys, it was just you two, then the second time you added another member. And then this time, you’ve added another member. And I feel like it's just growing and growing. And from my perspective, what you guys have wanted to do from the start is just becoming more and more realised. So, it's been really cool to see. I'm glad we're touring together. I think our acts mesh really well together.

DS: Yeah, we appreciate it. Most of our touring has been with you. We are like your little brother that won't leave you alone. 

DS: I guess we should talk a bit about spirituality. I feel like we dabble in this idea of digital spirituality or religion.

BS: Like the religion of the community building in a positive way.

DS: Do you think that too, Kofi? I do lots of work in the Pacific and it's all around the broadband internet coming into these areas, bringing in education and community. Do you think the internet is a positive or a negative thing?

GO: I think it's just a thing that we can bend to our own will. Oftentimes it naturally bends in a very dark place, but when we add some consciousness to it, it can really be a benefit. But I feel like it's almost natural for it to become dark and we have to conscientiously put in effort.

DS: That's a really interesting point, because I was reading this thing about AI – it’s such a topical thing at the moment and I don't want to dive into it too much – but that AI is self-perpetuating. Basically, what I mean by that is it builds its consciousness off what's out there and then becomes that. So, it goes ‘What is AI?’ And then it sees AI in The Terminator kill all the humans, or AI in The Matrix, which was bad. So, then it thinks it is this evil thing.

But what do you think about saying, ‘AI is beautiful’, or that ‘AI can be angels’ or ‘AI can be a collective human consciousness’? And if we put that out into the world, do you think that's going to make it a better consciousness that exists?

GO: Yeah, I guess. That kind of goes to the point. It has to be conscious. It has to be a very conscious effort that we make. Because I feel like the reason the ‘terminators’ and all of that Matrix stuff exists is because we as humans fear getting taken over. We fear the unknown, we fear things that are different or what we perceive to be stronger or better. And the natural instinct is to make it the enemy and to destroy it.

DS: Do you think we should embrace it?

GO: I think it's inevitable.

DS: Yeah, it's like a wave. You're either on the wave or you're not on the wave.

GO: Exactly! So, you may as well just do the best you can.

DS: With your music and art, do you see yourself utilising that world more? Or is it kind of in parallel to what you're doing?

GO: I can definitely see it in the future. It's interesting. Something I've only just thought of with our two acts touring is how we deal with the metaphors or themes of religion as well. Like you guys do it in a really futuristic, almost sci-fi way. Mine is kind of a fantasy, absurdist type of way. It's just a really cool expression of very similar themes.

DS: They definitely speak to each other.

GO: But yeah, I can definitely see myself entering more into…

DS: Into your religion, your religious state?

GO: Yeah. But also into a technological space. Like we said, it's a wave and you have to jump on board at some point.

BS: It gives you more control in a weird way. Like you feel you can have more control in your performance, rather than just entertaining, it gives more of a purpose to the show in a way.

DS: I think what I really like about watching your show, Kofi, is it's very conceptual, and I really love conceptual music. Don't get me wrong, I like a love song or something with a lot of emotion… It hits you real hard. But for that to have a whole world that it lives in, like world-building, is amazing for me. It's like a movie.

BS: Do you dramatically evolve? Do you see any dramatic transformation in your art?

GO: Well, I think that kind of goes back to the first thing we were talking about. I don't even feel comfortable staying in the same world for too long.

BS: Would that include doing something beyond music?

GO: I think so. You know what you're saying about concepts, I think I love that too. And I loved that way before I got into music. Before I was doing music as a kid, I was writing short stories. I was writing poems, and then I got into video games and I loved the idea of storytelling and world-building. And then I discovered music, and I didn't discover music through conceptual albums. It was like, ‘How can I put the story in the music?’. And then I discovered other conceptual albums and was like, ‘Okay, this is how to do it’.

But, going to your question, Byron, my medium has already evolved so much. I was doing storytelling as a kid and moved to poetry, then I moved to songs and then I moved to albums. So, I think naturally the progression will just move to the next medium when it sees fit. The core was never music, it was storytelling and world-building.

DS: I remember speaking to your manager Andrew once and he was saying that you're a poet, first and foremost. And I think that's really interesting because it's a really interesting way to approach all of the different art forms.

GO: How did you guys start? Your music and your aesthetic and the technological side are so intertwined. Where was the starting point for that?

DS: I had been working on a bunch of music with these two guys, Sebastian Tellier and John Kirby. Then I started working on some of my own stuff in that same kind of production world. And I was looking for a singer because I'm not the best singer. And my partner Jedda Culley said, ‘Oh, there's this amazing singer…Byron Spencer’. I'd never met him, but I knew his work through video and photography, and I knew he had that whole visual realm, which was really attractive, too, because you talk about world-building and, like, with Byron, he was already this very Australian essence.

And anyway, he came into the studio and he sang. This first day he actually faced the wall, he didn't look at me, but he sang like an angel. I was like, ‘Whoa, let's do some songs’. And then we started doing some songs and I said, ‘Oh, I've got this idea of, like, an avatar-led band. Let's create this.’

BS: I feel like Dan's is this wizard and I keep on taking anything… Any technological pill, and I'm going to be the one that will go into the underworld. I'm just going to get into this box and put on these goggles…

DS: And I'll just be this scientist fucking with you… You're my guinea pig!

BS: We've really bonded over a lot. Everything at the core is actually quite emotional. The concept of love and all this stuff is the underlying theme. And it’s kind of ambiguously masked by all this other stuff, but it enriches the ultimate project. But it's also simple in many ways as well.

DS: I think a lot of the lyrics are very much personal to you, Byron. There's a personal emotional point of view that's married with this kind of turbo imagery… A turbo immersive experience. I was doing VR [virtual reality] stuff and was already kind of in that world and then Covid hit, so I just taught myself all this stuff and looked for a way to marry that with an amazing show.

BS: Yeah, and we both like the theatre. We are getting more and more inspired with the concept of cabarets and musicals and wanting to push that further and further. We do have an overarching story that we've kind of written for everything, so every song kind of links. We're obviously still finding our way while we do it but hopefully the way we can release everything will kind of tell a story in some senses, like a play or a musical.

DS: Before we put out any music, we wrote four acts and each act had three or four songs. And it's kind of changed now, but I used to love musicals as a kid.

BS: I think that will come more and more, even after this trip. Talia Kuo [who tours with the band as a dancer] is also really into it, and we've been listening to more musicals, I think there's something really interesting there. I think that's more my background as well.

GO: So, when you say, you wrote the ‘acts’, was that the story from start to finish, and then you made the songs?

DS: Yeah. It was kind of happening at the same time. We had beds of these songs. And then Byron started writing, and we finessed it. But it's very much like a fantastical version of your life, Byron. That's how I look at it. It's like this kind of fantastical autobiography.

BS: Yeah, for sure.

DS: And then we sprinkle a whole bunch of stuff around it. I don't know if that's what it's become, but I think that's where it started. And so, I don't know when you're writing lyrics, but we were in the studio and we had this kind of framework.

BS: I think it's going to go a little bit “back to the future” now in my head. The story might stay the same, but we started with this car, and now the car's been in every video. If they become bigger shows, then I think the car would be on the stage eventually.

DS: It's like a DeLorean. I think it'd be really cool if we made that car, and we toured in it. 

GO: I love that. That's similar to how I made this latest album. It's like I wrote the story first and then I had that story, and the album just became what the story would sound like. One of my favourite shows, Attack on Titan, just ended.

DS: Oh, yeah, that guy John Kirby, his partner is Kiko. She was like one of the main actors in the live action.

GO: Oh, sick! It's one of my favourite shows. It's one of those shows with lots of twists and turns and you can tell the author knew what the end was going to be before you started, and I love that. It's not all about instant gratification as the story's being told, but it's all for the grandeur of when you get to the end and you see the full picture, then it's like...

DS: Aww, they had it planned this whole time!